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I'm Just Confused

Okay, so I'm just so confused right now. And I want your guyses advice on what to do. My book involves vampires and yes they are teenagers at a school. Sounds like Twilight doesn't it. Well I don't want it to sound like Twilight. I want it to be my own (with secret agents and strong, independant women), and I have had some people suggest that I change them to adults, so that they're older and more mature.

And I don't know which to choose. I've been thinking about it and I just can't decide, so I'm holding a poll. If you pick yes or no please tell me why in the comment box. Thank you.

[Poll #1444798]

peace.love.happiness.

- Rosie

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If you're going to make them secret agents and strong, independent women, seems like they'd be better as adults.

If you just have secret agents and strong independent women in addition to the vampires, it could possibly go either way, though there are lots of teenage vampire novels out and about.

I would make them older to go with the concept of them being strong independent women, mainly because the high school age and setting comes with a whole set of baggage that would get in the way of these women doing whatever whenever. Know what I mean?

Okay, to me, the character of a teenage strong, independent woman who's a secret agent? Really not plausible to me. What's more, if I was reading about her, I'd feel like she was a Mary Sue.

That said, I can see why you might not want to make them adult-adults. There's a mood that's totally lost if you age them/her ten years (say from 16-18 to 26-28). Maybe you could compromise and have them be older teens or younger adults--say 18 to 23? They'd still be young, but you wouldn't be adding another high school vampire novel into the mix, which, quite frankly, I'm not sure we need more of at this point.

It does sound like an cool idea... but when I was thinking about the ages, I had another thought. If your FMC is a secret agent than obviously she's intelligent, mildly athletic (can at least run for it, if need be!), thinks quickly on her feet, has a social intelligence that lets her get the job done and probably bleeds into her personal life, etc. So, she's a pretty 'glamorous' character, right off the bat. And a strong, independent woman. Well, that's all well and good (trust me, I'm all for crazy strong women!) but it could make her seem too... perfect?

I guess my trouble with a young secret agent is... is the character even old enough to be THAT good at what's she's doing? If she IS that good, she'd still have had to go through a lot of training, etc., which would have seriously hampered her social life--she might even have been an 'outcast' if she spent a lot of time going on missions or missed school for training, briefings, whatever. I just feel like your character needs some kind of struggle--especially if she's younger.

So, the thought I had that might make your FMC seem more real and 3D was... what if she was still in training to be a secret agent? If she was around 18-23 or so, that would seem a bit more age-appropriate and the fact that she's going through trials and still learning and making mistakes, well, that would add a lot of dimension and meat to her character. Readers like to identify with what characters are going to--joy, love, sorrow, whatever. Seeing a character struggle to become something awesome, well, I think a lot of readers could relate, where as you'd have fewer readers relating to a woman who is already an awesome secret agent who is strong and independent.

But, that's all more than you actually asked for... I did read your scene snippet the other day (got pulled away before I could comment, sorry!) and the comments in the post, so from all that, this is my take on the whole thing. Obviously, I'm not intimately familiar with the whole story, so some of this may not apply. At the very least, I hope it helped. I'd be interested in seeing more from this world in the future, as I do think there's potential for a cool story and a good, fun read in there.

That's the thing, I do have her making mistakes and still in training and getting punished. She's not perfect in any way and she is an outcast in a lot of other schools she's been to (I just pose her as strong and independant because I hate how Bella is so clingy and dependant. I just hate that in a woman). Sorry, I confused you there... you can read more about her on my blog but is locked to friends only. you can friend me if you want to check it out... and comment there.

But again thanks for the advice. I appreciate it. ^.^

Throw away the five first drafts?

Seems like it's gonna be good. Maybe you should make them in their late teens, 18-19, or 20 even. Good luck with your novel! ^^

I vote you make them adults. For one, agreeing with everyone else that going for the 'strong, independent women' and 'secret agent' types, teenagers just aren't that. Teens are still trying to figure out who they are, what they want to be, what kind of personalities they have... There's a lot of development to be done.

The other reason I say to go for adults is this: I've read the Twilight saga. I've also read the House of Night saga by P.C. and Kristin Cast (http://www.amazon.com/Marked-House-Night-Novel-Novels/dp/0312360258/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1250481834&sr=1-1), as well as a couple out of The Chronicles of Vladimir Tod (http://www.amazon.com/Eighth-Grade-Bites-Chronicles-Vladimir/dp/0142411876/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1250482062&sr=1-2). All three series have one major thing in common, aside from the vampire theme: Main characters are all teenagers. It seems, from my own reading experience, that doing teenage vampires is...for lack of a better term, cliche. It would be more original, more unlike the vampire series that are already in existence, to have the vampires be adult characters.

Edited 2009-08-17 04:09 (UTC)

There are wayy too many vampire highschool novels going around. It'd be hard to compete, and I think readers are getting annoyed with the whole setting. I think if you wanted to go school then you should try college. Also I'd go for the older teen years. Maybe she is just maturing into an independent woman. If your going to go college I'd suggest having her a bit clingy home. Then maybe have vampires threaten her family? It might make be a good reason for her to become agent and mature into the more independent woman you want her to be. It'd make a good plot instead of just throwing her out on the street as an agent who is independent.

If that is going to be your main character in the first place. Just a plot suggestion. Sorry, my imagination gets ahead of me. Anyway, good luck on your book.

Story wise, a highschooler who is a secret agent is a far stretch, unlikely and as mentioned above, with the ability to become Mary Sueish.

One thing I think is being forgotten is market. If you're going for YA, then you should keep the characters YA. Sure, you get the literate 14-16 year old on a brief occasion, but large market of people in that age bracket would rather read about someone they can better relate to- a student.

Same with adult market. If you're aiming at them, they likely don't want to have to deal with highschool drama.

So, are the vampires the secret agent, strong women? Or are they like hunting the vampires? If they are the vampires, then high school would work because they don't really have to be 17ish. they could look 17ish but be older. Edward Cullen is like really old, you know.

YA books are getting edgier and edgier. Yes, there are too many YA vampire novels but guess what? People keep buying them.

Whatever you decide, I do think that you kind of lose your audience when you write about 19-20 year olds. Too old for YA and a little young for adults. Just food for thought. If you go with YA, I would make the characters 17-18.

Sara

Thanks for voting and the advice.

Thank you all for voting, I really appreciate the advice...

I think that my final decision would be to make them adults... There is more than enough teenage vampire novels out there. Probably young and in college like

fallenlives suggested. But it'll still be YA... hopefully. But thanks again for all the advice.

And the polls are now closing.

peace.love.happiness.

- Rosie

I can only echo what others have said, but I'll add a caution: don't fall into the trap of defining your work in opposition to another (in this case, Twilight). Don't make your heroine the opposite of Bella just because you don't like Bella. She needs to be her own person and your story needs to be yours, not the opposite of someone else's.

That's all I wanted to say. Maybe you've already thought of that, but yeah, just a word of caution. ;)

Oh I know that... she does have her own personality and everything. And I didn't make her like that just because I hate Bella, I made her because 1. I had some ideas and just needed to write them down and when I started ideas just kept coming and 2. because... well that's pretty much it. But my character isn't based off of my hatred for Bella, let's just get that strait. But thanks for the advice anyway. ^.^

Ah, cool. Just thought I'd point it out since it's a trap that some people fall into. Good for you though, in that case!

Honestly, I don't think that simply having a secret agent character automatically makes your FMC a Mary-Sue. Would it be the same if your MC was a man would he be a Marty-Stu for being a secret agent. He should be, if that's the case. The concept that characters are Mary-Sues based solely on their occupation seems to be a preventative for anyone trying to write fiction about spies, or vampires, or whatever cliche is out there. (And inevitably people DO write cliches no matter how hard you try to avoid it, but what matters is the twists, the turns, the tone, and overall writing and characterization of the piece that makes THIS BOOK different from something like THAT BOOK.)

So no, I don't think a super secret agent character makes her a Sue. I do think that it would be hard to pull off a convincing TEENAGER secret agent as teenagers don't have nearly as much training or time to be as good as an adult (although, written the right way, set in the right plot, set in the right world, perhaps it could be, but you'll have a hell of a time convincing your readership.) If it's a world where there's a military institution that trains children from infancy to adulthood, then you might have a convincing teenage spy. If it's a slice of the regular-world, then it would definitely not be as convincing.

I'd vote for making them adults, provided it's not set in a world that's different from ours, and not because teenage high school vampires have been done, because you can still take that story and shove it into places the genre hasn't gone, (people get too sensitive about doing something uber-special and uber-new and not-like-popular-crappy-story-of-the-year when they could spend their time truly developing their stories that would naturally take them away from that genre). Anyway, I'd vote for adult characters since they'd have more experience, more time to develop their skills, possibly more rational ability (provided you have a rational character, some adults, well, the're just not that rational), have more of an established persona and foundations, and have an entire background to sift through.

I would recommend evaluating your character very carefully however, since "secret agent" is typically a profession that does spawn powerhouse Mary-Sues, but I don't think her profession makes her a Sue. If she can do everything then yes, you've got yourself a Sue. If you've got yourself an agent who's really good at the stealth work but who has a BIG problem relating to people around her, she'd probably botch some kind of social mission - or perhaps she's really good at talking to and manipulating people, but she gets caught every time when she's sneaking around and has to think her way out of it.

Just because your character is a secret agent doesn't mean she has to be good at everything that secret agents are supposedly good at. Skills and personality are a big part of what makes natural, convincing characters as opposed to Mary-Sues.

-Kowareta

Thanks, and I do realize that. No one's perfect and neither is my characters. They've made a lot of mistakes during their lives... trust me. I guess I should tone down a little, your right about the being good at one thing but not the other. I'll have to change that... (and she isn't really social because of all the Cov. Ops she gone on). Anyhow, thanks for the advice, i'll definately take that into consideration. Thanks it again, it really does help. ^.^

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